Subject: Re: [LPNY DISCUSS] WTC Collapse WAS Re: Nolan vs. Russo Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:02:43 -0400 To: From: Bob Armstrong On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:58:53 -0000, rhymetofree6 wrote: >=A0Bob, you are saying that because of this general quality of= physics, >=A0all skyscrapers will likely fall directly downwards. By default . Look at some videos of buildings made to fall to= one side . You will see that they shoot out the supports virtually= all the way up the side they want to fall first and work their way across inner supports in timed sequences to create the= asymmetric collapse . The question in these monster collapses is if one side can= support the structure above it when the mass has moved even a meter off center above it . In a situation like 7 WTC which failed at its base , and with as I understand it , a relatively symmetric= fire at its base , there is no question . Furthermore , as I questioned , why would anyone taking out the towers screw around with another minor building ? Loony . With respect to the towers themselves where there were= essentially 10 story buildings above the failure points , if there was= enough asymmetry to cause the tops to start falling in one direction ,= then there would necessarily have to be an equal pushing of the floors below in the other direction . I would not be at all surprised if such an asymmetry in the collapse pattern may in= fact have been found . But if you don't think the obvious enormous damage caused by= the burning planes was the cause , what are you positing ? That someone snuck some kilograms of explosives up to those floors knowing where the planes would strike ? Loony . I have seen computer modelled analyses of the tower collapses on , eg , Nova . That's just the simplified for the tube detail= . I am positive that if you seek it , you can find very detailed engineering analyses , including any debris field asymmetries . I am sure PhD theses are being written about it . And I am sure all of them show that what we saw happen makes sense . >=A0Once a >=A0building has been weakened, say, in the middle, you have three >=A0buildings insofar as structure is concerned. =A0Two buildings of >=A0normal strength at the top and bottom. =A0And one weakened= building >=A0supporting the strong one at top, being supported by the strong= one >=A0at bottom. =A0The sections of disparate strength are then stacked= atop >=A0one another. =A0So we have two buildings falling directly down,= not >=A0falling over. =A0And one with an explosion or fire on lower= floors >=A0that did that? =A0Three for three? =A0Not plausible. > >=A0As for the material ejected outwards, it was concluded by some= that >=A0this was evidence for a blast. =A0I agree. =A0I didn't double check= the >=A0photos just now, but IIRC ejection happened at upper floors,= with no >=A0force landing on them to eject the material. > >=A0>=A0In lieu of cable and the Discovery and History channels ,= some >=A0browsing >=A0>=A0should get you to detailed engineering descriptions of the >=A0problem in >=A0>=A0general and the WTC collapse specifically . > >=A0Try this one: > >=A0http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html > >=A0Structural drawings, comparison of drawings to those presented= by >=A0experts said by the author to have deceived us. =A0No, I didn't= go and >=A0get the drawings myself. =A0But I saw the core of one of the= main >=A0towers in a construction photo, sticking out of the top during >=A0construction, and I don't believe it would pancake. =A0And it's= all >=A0the other odds and ends that add up to my general perception= they >=A0were blown. =A0They are below, from memory. =A0This took me some= time >=A0and I would appreciate your following up by reading. =A0I have= had >=A0this conversation many times and it's a waste of time unless= you do >=A0your own homework. > >=A0Here we go: > >=A0Fires not hot enough to weaken steel. =A0Temperatures were looked= up >=A0and widely discussed. =A0Fires weren't even uniform; more fuel= entered >=A0one tower than did the other. > >=A0Slow motion video of 7 WTC collapse looks to me like it was= blown. >=A0A burning or exploding fuel tank at the lower floors will= weaken the >=A0structure uniformly so it falls directly down? =A0So that the= whole >=A0structure is weakened enough to collapse? =A0Nope. > >=A0Pilot says planes could not do those High-G maneuvers with a= good >=A0pilot, let alone an unskilled one. =A0It then comes out there's= been a >=A0remote control system in place for years. =A0Okay, I didn't check= to >=A0see how hard it would be for the planes to do those turns. =A0But= two >=A0different pilots I heard said the same thing. =A0On all these= things, >=A0you will conclude generally from conversations what you do. =A0I >=A0merely heard different conversations. =A0Neither of us is= checking the >=A0data carefully, but a person will naturally pay attention to= word of >=A0mouth. > >=A0Terrorist's passport lying undamaged on the ground, waiting to= be >=A0found. =A0It fell from the airplane and wasnt' incinerated in= the >=A0fireball that melted the steel columns? =A0Indicates advance= frame-up. > >=A0Columbia University seismographic printout on the Web showing >=A0tremors before collapse of each Tower. =A0Elephant in living= room, >=A0doing the Rumba no less. > >=A0Interviews with firefighters, recordings of emergency personnel= and >=A0a TV journalist all report explosions. =A0The URL for the TV >=A0journalist is below; the one with the firefighters, who also= say >=A0they were blown, may be on the first site I gave above. > >=A0http://prisonplanet.tv/articles/april2004/042704secondaryexplos= ions.h >=A0tm > >=A0Steel at base of Towers melted. =A0Much material pulverized to= dust >=A0not explicable by forces of collapse itself. =A0Indicates= explosives >=A0and conceivably particle beam weapons. =A0The latter were= reported by >=A0eyewitnesses in Panama invasion by the way. =A0Boys and toys. > >=A0Forensic examination forbidden over objections of Fire= Department. >=A0All material removed quickly by Controlled Demolitions, Inc., >=A0perhaps the only company that could collapse the buildings.= =A0Why not >=A0theorize about conspiracies? =A0Think back. =A0Waco evidence= "lost". >=A0Flight 800, etc. > >=A0Pentagon plane does a turn and flies, unimpeded, into an= under- >=A0construction wing of the Pentagon? =A0Why the turn? =A0Why wasn't= it >=A0shot down? > >=A0Air defenses must have been stood down based on past behavior.= =A0If >=A0that happens, planting of charges before planes' impact is= plausible >=A0as there was someone on the inside. > >=A0Marvin Bush, President's brother, headed company that ran= WTC's >=A0security. =A0This is the sort of thing that would rightly make= someone >=A0ask if I were paranoid, suspecting a plot by people I don't= trust. >=A0But add it to all the other stuff and it's worth mentioning. > >=A0Then there's the Intelligence Agencies' chatter before the= event, >=A0some long term, some just before. =A0Ashcroft stopped flying= before >=A0the event, though by some months. =A0Condi Rice's warning to= Mayor >=A0Brown not to fly was I think just before the event. =A0British= Intel >=A0wouldn't let Salmon Rushdie fly just before the event. =A0At= least one >=A0foreign Intel agency warned of this event, though I don't= recall how >=A0specific they were. =A0Von Bulow (no relation to Klaus I think)= a >=A0retired German Intel official, said event could not POSSIBLY= have >=A0been done without resources of a state. =A0So something was known= in >=A0Intel circles though I can't determine if the date or nature= of >=A0event was known. > >=A0Dimensions of Pentagon hole not consistent with aircraft it is >=A0claimed struck it. > >=A0That's all from memory. =A0No, I'm not going to review all the >=A0drawings, compile yet another site when all that work is= already >=A0sitting there, awaiting you. =A0A group I was mildly active in= early >=A0on, the 9-11 skeptics, is holding hearings in several cities. > >=A0All this will come out and you will see the assumptions you= made: > >=A0Someone would have pointed out this must have been an inside= job. >=A0(They are. =A0The information will catch up with you. =A0You can= help >=A0that by reading it!) > >=A0Someone on the inside would have ratted the others out.= =A0Government >=A0experts not complicit in the attacks would have spoken out.= =A0(They >=A0are. =A0That will also catch up with you.) > >=A0So I already have my conclusion: =A0Secret Government Verboten. >=A0Solves the problem. =A0Apart from the occasional post like this,= I do >=A0absolutely nothing to assist this information spreading,= because >=A0better men and women than I are already doing a fine job. > >=A0>=A0>=A0But all I concluded is that we can't have a secret= government. >=A0> >=A0>=A0On this we agree . And the Bush regime is the most= dangerously >=A0>=A0secretive I have seen - particularly in its unlimited denial= of >=A0habeas >=A0>=A0corpus to prisoners . > >=A0Yes, and the Right are beginning to agree. =A0So I hope for a= national >=A0learning process that everyone gets due process and we don't= have >=A0a "leader" to pick out the bad guys, who will always be who he >=A0doesn't like. > >=A0>=A0If I were running an airline , I would be sure all flight= crews >=A0were >=A0>=A0armed but screen passengers for weapons , securing , but not >=A0>=A0confiscating them for the duration of the flight . > >=A0I agree. =A0The pilot, crew and passengers all agree to get into= a >=A0metal tube laden with jet fuel and fly at supersonic speeds.= =A0Even >=A0by leaving the ground, so they can't get an ambulance if they= stroke >=A0out. =A0They take a risk. =A0It's up to the owner of the airline= who he >=A0lets on each plane and each person whether they want to fly. > >=A0>=A0>=A0Ever see that photo of J. Edgar Hoover in drag? =A0I saw it= on the >=A0>=A0>=A0History Channel. =A0What would people have said back when if= you >=A0had >=A0>=A0>=A0said the man was a transvestite? >=A0> >=A0>=A0Never caught that one . Like Modern Marvels tho . > >=A0I like Modern Marvels, too. =A0I like all that shit that got= built. =A0I >=A0like Western science figuring out cool stuff. > >=A0You need to look at secret societies weaponizing all that= stuff, >=A0then not telling us about it. =A0Dangerous. > >=A0Best regards, > >=A0Theron Sorry , but I think all this crap fails in so many ways its= loony fringe insanity . Remote control doing something a pilot can't ? Come on . What was done is brilliant enough . Here's what really happened : http://www.cosy.com/y02/cg020204/CornHoop1.jpg --=A0 =A0Bob Armstrong -- http://CoSy.com -- 212-285-1864 Computing Environment : =A0http://CoSy.com/CoSy/ A WTC vision : http://CoSy.com/CoSy/ConicAllConnect/ Libertarian Presidential Candidates =A0:= http://CoSy.com/Liberty.htm Restore our Right to Relax : =A0http://ny.lp.org/cgi-bin/petition.cgi?Against_the_Smoking_Ban =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02004/04/29 1:45:07 PM