Subject: Re: [LPNY DISCUSS] Check this out on FrontPageMag.com! Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:12:55 -0500 To: From: Bob Armstrong I'm cc:ing this to some English friends who sent me a note : Subject: An interesting day out .... Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:29:41 -0000 =A0 Even though we never made it to Hyde Park! Too many people! And mention the links http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpny_manhattan/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpny_discuss/ where they can find more of this scintillating repartee . On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 04:43:46 -0000, Ronald J. Wieck "= =A0=A0wrote: >=A0--- In lpny_discuss@yahoogroups.com, Bob Armstrong= =A0wrote: >=A0>=A0But there were all sorts of people and races in the crowd (= which > >=A0is=A0=A0the largest I have ever seen and I agree with Gary= Snyder's >=A0>=A0=A0estimate of at least a quarter million ) > >=A0Bob, what on earth does it mean to say that you agree with= Gary >=A0Snyder's estimate of at least a quarter million? A person= milling >=A0about in a large crowd hasn't the slightest idea how many= people are >=A0actually there. There is a bit of an extrapolation in that I did not see the= crowds on 2nd and 3rd which are reported to have totally overwhelmed= the thousands of police getting overtime . When I arrived about 11:30 , and encountered final barriers at= 2nd to getting over to 1st , I was told to go north along with a crowd= which was overflowing the sidewalk . No access to 1st Ave was allowed= even at 57th St . I decide to hell with it and to go back down to= 54th to see if I could get thru the barriers to Jodi's apartment by showing them my note I had made of the address , etc . Perhaps= because its right on the corner and I could point to it , they let me= thru . But , it was about 11:50 by then , and everybody had left .= Since I was inside the 2nd avenue barriers , I headed on east to 1st= . There , the free speech corrals were completely full up to= about 57th . I continued north past the 59th Street Bridge - you= realise the size of the crowd on 2nd apparently closed the Bridge for= a time . The crowd was filling in even north of the Bridge even tho you could see noting , and the video and sound weren't= working and didn't look like they were going to . I remember a= particular instance of brute ( dumb ) force was the cop that would not= allow me to walk north under the Bridge and insisted instead I had to work my way against the funneled corralled crowd pressing south= . In any event , about a block north of the Bridge , I figured if I ever wanted to get a good spot , and maybe run into the libertarian contingent , maybe if I headed over to York and walked down its east side , I might be able to tunnel south . If I had had a sign , I'm not sure I could have gotten all the way down to the end of Sutton . In any case , I managed to get myself into the very crowded first corral - kind of like getting to the front of concert . Essentially 1st between 50th and the Bridge form sort of a bowl with a rise around 56th . The entire length from 51st to beyond the bridge was full . In 25 Fahrenheit weather . Perhaps a couple of hours into the event , the crowd apparently overwhelmed the barriers at 2nd and 51st and flowed in to fill that street too . Notably , they complied instantly with the police emergency lane along the west side of 1st . Beyond that , I can only judge by the crowds , particularly between 3nd and Lex filling the whole street heading west , clearly beyond the ability of the number police in the area to force to the sidwalks . And the stuffed subways going and returning . I noticed the dearth American media . I kept looking for any news channel helicopters . I think it odd that unlike most of the rest of the world I have seen no aerial overview which might provide the global view you seek . > You may as well attempt to count snowflakes as they >=A0fall. The organizers claim that there were one million= protesters >=A0(hell, why not three million?). Of course, they're lying, but= that's >=A0their job. The police say, one hundered thousand. I don't know= what >=A0that figure is based on. I've heard one channel say "hundreds of thousands" . I'll= accept that . > Nobody is 'good' at=A0distinguishing two hundred thousand > constantly moving people from=A0three hundred thousand. No argument there . >=A0>=A0and a spectrum , tinted to be sure , among the speakers . >=A0>=A0NO-ONE defended Saddam . >=A0> >=A0>=A0I didn't think any president could be worse than the Clintons= , >=A0but >=A0>=A0our selected president Bush is downright globally frightening= and >=A0>=A0therefore prosperity crushing . >=A0> >=A0>=A0People are equating Bush and Hussein because of the= bloodthirsty >=A0>=A0dictatorial - manner in which he is pursuing his family's= vendetta >=A0>=A0instead of either going after the admitted World Trade= Center >=A0>=A0perpetrator Bin Laden , or addressing the festering sore and= holder >=A0>=A0of massive arsenal of WOMDs , Israel . > >=A0Always the anti-Semitic overtones. Israel does not seek the >=A0destruction of any Arab state: it wants to survive. >=A0> >=A0> >=A0>=A0I happened to get up to the front of the crowd and was very= much >=A0>=A0missing a libertarian themed sign to point out it is the= STATE >=A0whose >=A0>=A0budgets war swell , not business , not even the oil business= . >=A0>=A0As it was , I had conversations with a number of sign= holders >=A0>=A0pointing out that you did not have to look beyond the State's= self >=A0>=A0interest in war and discord to some "capitalist" motive . I= opened >=A0>=A0several minds . > >=A0We'll never know, but I'd certainly bet heavily that your= message >=A0resonated with no one. >=A0> >=A0>=A0Of course everybody was blasting Bush . =A0In his threats to= act as >=A0>=A0dictator to the world , answerable to no-one , he's far= scarier >=A0>=A0than any overflown and proctologically inspected billboard= dictator >=A0>=A0on the other side of the world . >=A0>=A0Listen to the UN speeches of all the countries in the world .= How >=A0>=A0come they are almost all saying the same things as the= massive >=A0>=A0global marches ? >=A0> >=A0>=A0How can anybody not perceive that our unilateral attack on= Iraq >=A0>=A0would greatly increase our personal danger here for years to= come ? >=A0> >=A0>=A0-- >=A0>=A0=A0Bob Armstrong -- http://CoSy.com -- 212-285-1864 >=A0>=A0A WTC vision : http://cosy.com/CoSy/ConicAllConnect/ >=A0>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02003/02/18 4:38:46 PM -- =A0Bob Armstrong -- http://CoSy.com -- 212-285-1864 A WTC vision : http://cosy.com/CoSy/ConicAllConnect/ =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02003/02/19 9:42:09 AM