Subject: Re: [LPNY DISCUSS] limiting population Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:28:05 -0400 To: From: Bob Armstrong On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 04:41:00 -0400, Bonnie wrote: >=A0On Sat, Aug 02, 2003 at 12:04:38PM -0400, Bob Armstrong wrote: >=A0>=A0On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:11:42 -0400, Bonnie wrote: >=A0>=A0>=A0the alleged >=A0>=A0>=A0"separation of church and state" clause (which I don't >=A0>=A0>=A0believe actually exists in the Constitution). >=A0> >=A0>=A0That's a paraphrase of the very first clause of the first >=A0>=A0amendment ( http://cosy.com/Liberty/FirstClause.htm ) : >=A0> >=A0>=A0" Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of >=A0>=A0=A0religion , or prohibiting the free exercise thereof " > >=A0It's a different phrase, taken from some speech back then, but >=A0NOT the Constitution. I _wish_ the Constitution said that. It >=A0doesn't. I fail to see any important distinction . Looking at my http://cosy.com/Liberty/FirstClause.htm composed for Andrea's Bill of Rights day event last year , I see the one is= Jefferson's generality explaining the intent of the specific legal= statement implementing the notion . >=A0>=A0>=A0Church and State both have the ancient goals of trying to= "win" through >=A0>=A0>=A0population increase, and many of their regulations are= towards that end >=A0>=A0>=A0(increasing their "flock"). >=A0> >=A0>=A0Seems to me , that at least for the last half century States= have been >=A0>=A0more on the side of limiting population thus the promotion= of >=A0>=A0contraception , abortion , and in fact any non-procreative= sex ( mutual >=A0>=A0masturbation ) between consenting adults - so long as not= cash market . > >=A0Interesting. That coincides with "In God we Trust" appearing on= all our money >=A0and "under God" being added into the Pledge of Allegiance. So= much for the >=A0separation. I remember when that crap was added to the Pledge . I had= remembered it being in second grade , but it must have been in 4th . In any= case , even by that time it struck me as being blatantly contradictory= . > In the US, the impetus towards freer access to birth control >=A0came only through great struggle AGAINST both Church and State.= The State >=A0doesn't promote it, Add the UN and India , and the global governments and NGOs in= general on my side of the ledger. Communist Eastern European countries also= had no restrictions on abortions altho they ended up facing= declining populations because of lack of reproduction . And , of course the Catholics , Hassidim , Mormons and a number= of Moslem and Hindu sects fervently follow the biblical admonition= to "be fruitful and multiply" . Definitely it's a defining issue between Conservatives and= Liberals - with Conservatives aligned with the churches and the Liberals with Statism . --=A0 =A0Bob Armstrong -- http://CoSy.com -- 212-285-1864 Liberty : http://cosy.com/Liberty.htm =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02003/08/03 12:54:38 PM