Subject: Re: [drugwar] (~OT) Why focus on the State Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:59:52 -0400 To: From: Bob Armstrong On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:43:24 -0400, Preston Peet wrote: >=A0Bob wrote in responce to Libby's supplying the Jefferson quote= about defeat >=A0of our revolution to the lending institutions and moneyed= corporations >only >=A0because >=A0people Vote for it to control more and more of their >=A0lives and have more and more power to dispense to >=A0its friends .< > >=A0Well, beg to differ, but while you're technically correct ( I'm a technical guy ) > about the people >=A0voting into power the government we have today, the government= isn't sitting >=A0idly by letting the people vote as they will- they do= everything in their >=A0power it seems to me to get the people uninterested in= participating, >=A0illustrating how little good or difference it makes to vote,= insuring that >=A0fewer and fewer people do actually vote, and that when they do= they don't >=A0have the whole picture. No kidding . I learned a lot about the barriers to entry set up= by the political duopoly when I quixotically ran for congress against= Jerrold Nadler in 2000 ( http://cosy.com/boba2k/boba2k.htm ) . The LP= joined the Greens and Independents in winning a court victory last week= here in New York State which will add a blank to the voter= registration form so that even political groups who have not received 50,000= votes in the last gubernatorial election can get receive the perks= which come with such registration . I submitted my comments on the upcoming November ballot= initiative here in New York City to have open primaries for publication in the= voter guide . This would drastically reduce the monopoly the= Democratic Party has here . ( See http://cosy.com/Liberty.htm#OpenPrimary . ) All of this is about rules the political class has made for= themselves . > Since big business owns the media that supplies the >=A0information necessary to make informed choices, and does a= shitty job (or a >=A0great one depending upon one's perspective) of supplying said= info, the >=A0people often make crap choice based on crap info. Yes all the major US TV media , even if owned by Australians ,= showed themselves to be monolithic administration cheerleaders for the Warmongers . But if you went a level deeper , C-SPAN ( paid for= by the cable media ) , BBC , and Deutsche Welt and many alternatives= were and are available . I think a great deal of the current Fascist= style of socialism that we live in is a product of the centralized= broadcast age which the internet is obsoleting . ( Yes the voting device bullshit is just that - petty political= warfare . ) >=A0=A0=A0Big Business owns the US government, Here's where you lose me . On the one side you have lots of= competitors with interests restricted to lots of different niches ; on the= other a monolith with ten times larger revenue than the total global= revenues of even the largest , and with perhaps a thousand times the= assets . And it , uniquely , has the most powerful armed force in history= . For every Chevron/Texaco there is an Exxon/Mobil and a Royal= Dutch Shell and a British Petroleum and hundreds of smaller players . Yes= each tries to entice the Government to use its force in their behalf . But= other groups , like for instance the anti-human-welfare= environmentalists who use the Federal hammer in the hands of the ignorant lower 48= to make decisions about what Alaskans should do with their= resources . If the "Corporations" own the Government , how come the Tobacco Companies have been damn near extinguished ? > insuring we have endless wars on drugs, terrorism, and >=A0whatever else profits the corporations that supplies the > US government with=A0its members. This is where you drive me nuts ! Can't you see , IT IS THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF which profits from endless wars ! Those corporations and divisions making war material for the State may profit some , but most don't . I cannot fathom how you can think than any more that a handful give a damn , as an entity , about the drug wars . But , of= course corporations are just teams of people self-organized to produce some goods or services in the web of human needs . So they reflect the general attitudes of the members of those teams . On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:34:48 -0400, Preston Peet wrote: >=A0Condeleeza Rice has an oil tanker named after her,< > she was in charge of the Middle East for Chevron-Mobile, >=A0http://aztlan.net/oiltanker.htm Guess I should have known that . But I had no interest in Chevron before its merger with Texaco . >=A0This is my point- you keep seperating the two Bob, when the= system we have >=A0today is almost pure fascism as defined by Mussolini-= government for big >=A0business (loosely paraphrased). They are part and parcel the= same thing >=A0today. But it doesn't and should have to be that way. I've agreed with you that the tight coupling of and use of State= Force for the benefit of selected corporations is fascism ( aka "crony= capitalism" ) . But what is this other way you envision ? Which do you get rid= of - State Forced Monopoly or Competitive Free Market Corporations= ? >=A0I'm not talking about removing choice- I'm talking about giving= everyone the >=A0opportunity to at least have some meager chance for the= basics- Yes you are talking about removing choice . As I pointed out you= and I individually have less money to pay for our own medical care= than we would if a chunk hadn't been taken . But more deeply , you= believe that individuals are somehow less charitable than the collective as a= whole so force must be used to transfer the dispensation of charity= to the Political Class . >=A0=A0=A0I want higher education offered to all- not just those who= can afford >=A0it- just as they do in say, Norway, or many other countries= too, where the >=A0citizens are able to continue their educations as long as they= desire so far >=A0as I know, going on to universities. Higher education is available and always has been to those= talented enough and industrious enough to earn it . Why not leave the freedom to= award scholarships , loans , assistantships -- all the forms of aid --= up to the institutions themselves ? Being a perpetual student is a very tempting lifestyle as long= as it's on someone else's dollar . And , of course , it makes it harder for the families who are trying to foot $20,000 bills for their= own children to do it . They have to pay not only for their own= children but someone else's too . >=A0>Wandering into issues like the global energy industry ,= absolutely >=A0vital to our very lives , and of which the US is less than a= third , seems >=A0off topic. More generally , Gore and Cheney aside,...< >=A0Actually, my referencing Occidental was on-topic, in that Plan= Colombia has >=A0this nifty neato part about training at least one battalion to= protect >=A0Occidental pipelines with anti-drug money, our taxdollars. Well , we're totally agreed all that sucks big time . Corporate= welfare is as grotesque as any . I'm going to be getting to a small cap oil and gas conference= tomorrow and I think Colombia is one of the riskiest places to invest= that there is . They will remain a basket case unless and until they= kick the US the F--- out . Ghana seems to be getting its act together . >> I'm not=A0sure how you expect the cast of characters with the > expertise in=A0particular industries to not be involved on both > sides of the=A0market/force boundary .< > >=A0I don't expect them to not be involved, > >I just prefer my taxes go toward=A0beneficial sorts of things for= all, > things that don't necessarily benefit >=A0the companies that our "leaders" go in and out of while they go= in and out >=A0of government. We libertarians agree that we don't want to see our taxes go to= benefit government cronies and courtiers - in any field . But= that is inevitable once your money is in their hands . The only way to= make sure your money is used for purposes you consider beneficial is= to keep that money and the choices it enables , in your own hands . Starve the State . Peace thru Freedom , -- From Marc Brands http://www.liberty-news.com/newsletter.html : "A tyrant...is always stirring up some war or other, in order= that the people may require a leader." Plato -- =A0Bob Armstrong -- http://CoSy.com -- 212-285-1864 Return our Right to Relax : =A0http://ny.lp.org/cgi-bin/petition.cgi?Against_the_Smoking_Ban Computing Environment : =A0http://CoSy/CoSy/ A WTC vision : http://CoSy.com/CoSy/ConicAllConnect/ Liberty : http://CoSy.com/Liberty.htm =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02003/09/22 3:13:10 PM